One of the rooms heating has gone out. If you're going to work on your system, be careful, you're playing with 220v. Sounds like you are doing well with your set up. air to air heat pumps and waste oil systems in all of N.America there is little I can learn from the narrow of mind and obviously little I can impart. ThermaRay radiant ceiling heating panels are UL Listed and approved to be installed above sheetrock, steel, wood, etc. The fact that you equate electric radiant heat with electric resistance strip heating demonstrates an ignorance of the basic concept of *RADIANT* heat. Radiant Ceiling Heat (Ceil Heat) Thermostats. Should we be concerned? How is the electric service run to the grid? Many interesting posts enjoying the debate. #9. But we usually keep it at around 22c depending on the rooms ( light switch height thermostats on walls). Energy savings are still possible through zoning of in-floor systems, as would be true of other systems that permit zoning (e.g. Mine is wire embedded in the drywall, NOT between two layers. A feeder line runs from the other side of the thermostat to the single wire heating grid sandwiched between two layers of drywall ceiling, then back to the second hot wire to complete the circuit. Since we have already exceeded building code and comfort expectations with a well insulated house and argon filled thermal pane windows, everything added subtracts from ROI and diminishing returns are the only guarantee. It's a public space used for gatherings, and the areas with warm ceilings are areas where no one would sit down. Since the overall thermal comfort sensation tend to decrease with an increase in the magnitude of We generally only use the electric heat in the bathroom and when we go away. The question really is, how best to deliver that comfort? In these experimental efforts, the principles of radiant heating were often aligned with solar power. We use the bathroom zone in the winter but otherwise we keep it at 50 degrees and heat with wood. There's a 4" electric junction box on each 2x4 with wires coming/going. Looks like it's for trades though. Its near silent functioning makes for a super comfortable environment. So when heated water travels through the hydronic tubing within aluminum panels, the metal swiftly transfers the heat to the home. Ellen- Sounds good. I don't know about the economics but you get a really nice warmth from them in the morning when you are shaving, plus they de-fog the mirror. Thanks to haulbrookdf for your comment as well. - Answered by a verified HVAC Technician. I have had people swear by this system, winter will tell. Prestige boiler for in floor heat and ceiling vented heat. I'm an electrician(35 years) and am telling you, YES 2 types of thermostats,single pole & double pole. And I have 400+ sq. The remainder of sheets were 5/8 firecode. I have the product in both of my homes. The living room and hall are tied together onone thermostat and has stop working. The main problem with your proposal -- to lower the air temperature setting of the thermostat and depend on electric ceiling panels to warm people -- is that people don't stay put, unless they are working on an assembly line in a cold factory (where radiant panels probably make sense). We may earn revenue from the products available on this page and participate in affiliate programs. I don't want to just lay it up on top of the patch I put in (attic is above). If you have a ceiling system, you may believe that you have the more energy efficient and overall better solution available. Check into a company out of Wareham, MA. Certainly, the basic technology offers efficiency advantages, but individual system components make a big difference too. 1st, the purpose of ceiling radiant heat is NOT to make you feel warm as in sunlight, it IS to warm the surfaces below; flooring,furniture,etc.,therefore warming the living space fully from the bottom up!! Most radiant heating systems are in the floor, and last time I checked most occupants of a house are near the floor. How to Install Radiant Heat Ceilings | This Old House - YouTube 0:00 / 3:19 How to Install Radiant Heat Ceilings | This Old House This Old House 1.94M subscribers 75K views 2 years ago. i have access to the attic space and i havent seen any evidence of wires. Here in heat-pump country we learned a long time ago that low-velocity high-volume systems are the way to go, and they make for a great, easy to manage background system. According to the Department of Energy, "Radiant heating has a number of advantages. The best way for one to reduce their energy consumption is to use electric radiant ceiling heat. Discuss Ceiling heating1970's? Show me where I proposed this. 6 Replies. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. how do I know for sure I have a reading on a ceiling joist and wont be putting a heavy ceiling screw in the heating system?? However I'd be happy to go into greater detail at another time, perhaps in another topic area that is more appropriate. in the Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net, Reply to Ceiling heating1970's? From above heating feels very,good on a cold terrace though, The floor keeps in between 21c and 27c Calorique's ceiling heat products are 100% efficient with no parasitic loss. While the wife upstairs feet were blistering, the gadgee doonstairs heid had a coating of frost on it. Everybody who uses this type of heat pays high fuel bills. When the heat kicks on, blasts of hot air rush into the space until the target temperature has been reached. Floors are comfortable due to that heat from the ceilings below. My cabinet contractor is concerned that this might "burn out" the heating system. See Heating Solutions for a Colonial Revival Addition. The lower voltage and wattage versions will cost you the least. And as soon as I get through reading all the info here I will be looking for somebody to inspect ours. So if youre sleeping in a second-floor bedroom, you no longer need to cover the cost necessary to keep the unoccupied first-floor at 70 degrees. The human body is a radiator and it is also a detector of radiant heat. Many of your observations apply only to poorly insulated, leaky buildings, rather than the tight, very well insulated buildings advocated on this website. Ontario Hydro has warned homeowners that Flex-Heat electric radiant ceiling heating, installed in the late 1970's, is dangerous and that the system can fail without warning and may become a fire hazard. Click here to Find a Contractor in your area. Absolutely bloody useless. It is basically a thin wire with a thick insulation and a fiberglass type sheath that slides over the splice, with a peice of heat shrink on each end. Bedrooms are so comfortable at times it is not even necessary to turn on heat in those rooms unless temperatures become extremely frigid. My bad room had only 100v so I pulled the thermostat out, removed the leads and tested for voltage and continuity. I also suggest you get in touch with John Siegenthaler who is a guru in this area and he can walk you through all of the technical considerations. There may be no such thing as a perfect system, but, hey, its 2015: You deserve heating that operates efficiently to create consistent comfort. Radiant flooring provides considerable design flexibility and warms chilly feet. Sorry, Martin, but there are plenty of studies out there. Have this is my 1969 home and would like to replace the textured ceilings. If anyone works at a desk, or maybe sits at a dining table, they might not be totally comfortable because their feet and legs will be cold. Had heater repair man in to put in thermostat and he said it cant be done. We would like to put a ceiling can in our livingroom. Also, need to re glue a styrofoam panel that cover the popcorn ceiling . Some will try to convince you that the old switches are impossible (expensive) to find. Radiant Ceiling Heat 1970S. How we perceive temperature, i.e. Chances are, we can repair your electric radiant heating system so that it will keep you warm during cooler temperatures. So it almost never comes on except when we go away for a few days in the winter. This feature has been temporarily disabled during the beta site preview. ive also cut 4-1/2 holes between joists for can lights and have not seen any wires in the cross section of gypsum board. Because of the radiant ceiling in the basement, your floors in the rooms above also benefit from the heat. Superinsulated too? Since ceilings are typically constructed of gypsum based sheet rock, they offer very little resistance to thermal transfer. It is clearly a waste of time to have a difference of opinion in this forum. Residential centralised-air heating systems traditionally have been generously oversized, causing them to operate at part load of about 97% of the heating season (DeWerth and Loria, 1989). The owner left me no history on the installation. My electric is over twice yours. Holes can be cut forlights fixtures and it will still work. http://www.toolbase.org/PDF/CaseStudies/enerjoy_case_study.pdf, http://www.pexsupply.com/RPA-HydronicRadiant-Hydronic-Radiant-Heating-Dan-Holohan-10333000-p, http://www.amazon.com/Modern-Hydronic-Heating-Residential-Commercial/dp/1428335153/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1328759341&sr=8-1, http://www.radiantec.com/why/technical-explanation.php, http://www.cmhc-schl.gc.ca/publications/en/rh-pr/tech/01-106-e.html, https://www.pmmag.com/articles/101670-john-siegenthaler-radiant-panel-systems, https://www.pmmag.com/ext/resources/PM/2014/June/016-020-0614-Siggy.pdf, https://radiantcooling.com/radiant-ceiling-vs-radaint-floor/, https://radiantcooling.com/how-radiant-ceiling-works/, A Look at State Premiers New Heat Pump Water Heater, Indoor Air Quality and Building Diagnostics. thanks thanks. We are looking at a home built in 1975. In part, radiant excels in efficiency because, unlike forced-air systems with imperfect ductwork,the former isnt vulnerable to heat loss. Improvements to chimney flues occupied many scientific minds. "This type of heating has the same advantages of other forms of electric resistance heat, including electric resistance baseboard, electric mats under your tile floor, and electric resistance space heaters. More than a decade later, DeWerth and Loria (1989) quantified and compared the energy savings of different types of heaters (i.e. Radiant ceilings circulate hot or cold water through concealed copper tubing on the back of the panels providing sustainable heating and cooling with minimal air ventilation requirements. The complete source for building, designing, and remodeling green homes. Results showed that the in-space heaters used less energy (gas or electric) than the central system, e.g. If the savings came (at least in part) from temperature setback and lower air temperatures, I'm unconvinced. But ceiling panel radiant? Here are the website rules, as well as some tips for using this forum. It has been like this for several years. It's the kind with wires spaced throughout the ceiling. The name is Calorique. Hello, All answers were no and i wouldn't hold him responsible if anything happened. Here, the heat responds to thermostat adjustments, not gradually, but more or less instantly. Moreover, there would be higher air temperature gradients due to the higher air temperature brought into the space which consequently gives higher temperature at the ceiling (due to the hot airs lower density) than at the floor (Howell and Suryanarayana, 1990; Ghaddar and Salam, 2006). we have no heat bill other than gas for the 4 chainsaw. there must be power coming from another part of the room. Morgan : and come in direct contact with combustible materials. Otherwise we keep it on 55 degrees to keep the house from getting too cold when we are at work. My home in OHIO was built in 1971 and has such heating. Radiant ceilings accelerate fast, when needed, to meet a big change in heating load. Our condo (built in the 60-'s) has a ceiling radiant heat system. dose this thmomstat look familar to any one? Some people prefer hot feet -- some people prefer a hot head. We had used Sears best grade. Has a 10mm copper strip down each side of mat, a type of fabric in between and is covered in a film. Many people shout the heavens 'heat rises'. Small Business. Thus, it is possible to maintain the air temperature by 5C lower compared to classical methods at the same comfort level (Dudkiewicz and Jezowiecki, 2009). With forced-air heating, the most ubiquitous type in America, temperatures are particularly variable, thanks to the roller-coaster effect of the system turning on and off. I put them behind the mirror in our master bath but we don't use them much because the walls are warm (good insulation) and the bath fan gets rid of the steam from the shower. It was comment #24. The best way for one to reduce their energy consumption is to use electric radiant ceiling heat. So it means 22 amps for 120/240 Volt system or 18 amps for 277 volt system, and since I am in the . There is a 3-wire cable for each room that runs 2 hot wires and an unshielded ground from the breaker box to each room for 220v. I would also add the US Dept. This principle of using wire elements to create radiant heat has been greatly refined over the years and forms the basis of many current energy-efficient infrared heaters made today. With hydronic radiant ceiling systems, your space is heated and cooled more efficiently, bringing comfort to all occupants. Does a CU swap require a full initial verification on all circuits before it can be energised? In most of the country, we can't afford to use electric resistance heat. Richard D. Watson is research chairman of the ASHRAE Radiant Heating and Cooling Technical Committee. About as much use as a bad bellyache seemed to be the concensus amongst users,now long since converted to wet systems.If I recall it was fed on the onpeak side of E7 via a T/S and contactor,and available 24hrs. ". When you turn the thermostat up to energize the system, voltage should drop to zero. Update Bernie Gerry We purchased the house, and it was built in 1968 not late 70s. But yes thanks if I ever need to take the ceiling out I will have it check for asbestos. Panels, each inset with hot-water tubing, lie under the floor material of your choice, delivering heat to the space above quietly, invisibly, and in a constant, enveloping way. In the end, you can save serious money on home heating by choosing any radiant system, but among all manufacturers offering radiant products, Warmboard can save you the most. "B. Radiant heaters vs. convective heaters Warmly Yours sells them for mirrors and they are inexpensive. I'm going to look him up and call him to ask his opinion. Then the heat suddenly turns off, and it stays off until the room gets cold enough to snap the system back into action. Our hydro bills have been through the roof compared to other houses in my area. Hi, my home was built in 1966, and I have ceiling radiant heat. Myth No.2: Radiant Ceiling Heat is Not Efficient. I dont think so anymore unless someone can come up with something with similar COP and simpler installation. House was built in early 1970s. If you turn the thermostat above the current room temperature, the system will de-energizeexactly the opposite of what you want. I was able find a label on the top side of the panel in my attic. 2. They are comfortable but I think floor heat works better. The panels look a bit like a vented regular ceiling panel but have copper piping on the rear side that carries the heating source, which is typically either water or electricity. While Warmboard offers better-than-average . There is also a Switch Action Closed thermostat and of course I got the wrong one the first time. Dec 9, 2011. was to put a couple dozen can lights in a 2 bedroom condo. The inspector can tell you who the manufacturer was - we just went through a home inspection when we purchased our house with radiant ceiling heating. The only downfall is that if you want to add something to the ceiling for whatever reason, you need to get qualified expert advice how to not mess it up! Ive been through coal, hot water and force air heating systems. With wood, coal, propane, solar thermal, oil, ground source. Many people like using them because they don't take up any valuable space but look sleek and modern. If you are sitting under a vent when the heat comes on, you know what I mean. Sure enough, the wire was cut from above and you couldn't see the break from below. The thermostats on radiant ceiling heaters operate differently than with central heating systems. UPDATE 1/21/2017 -- they are now saying (they = insurance and restoration professionals working with them) that is was the bathroom light fixture, not the ceiling heat, and it makes sense. The hardware of this device is mounted over the head making it very practical for homeowner living in small houses. I checked with the electrician that installed my ceiling heat He asked me some questions regarding if there had been any leaks, cracks in ceiling, or if I planned to use it for main heat source. If you use an electrician, let him know you've done the research so you don't get screwed on the replacement switch. Steve, Much of it is courtesy of John Siegenthaler who to my knowledge is THE most preeminent hydronic-heating scholar in the US. (But ductless heat pumps sure could change it up!). Radiant ceiling panels provide a type of heat that feels natural like sunlight. (I might not have this totally right either, because this is very complex, but I am all for learning where I might be wrong. I have electric ceiling heat installed in the 1970s. I have others, of course, but only in a pdf format. 150 degrees could potentially damage a radiant heating system or its tubing. personally, i liked better multiple baseboard heaters than overhead ceiling, unless with a pretty high ceiling ( 11ft + ) .that might change things . I agree with your first statement, but it is contradicted by the second. Believe it or not coal and hot water heat did not effect the respiratory but forced air is a respiratory nightmare. Between radiant and forced air heating and cooling, there are a world . So I depart and leave you to your bliss. Only drawback was you still had to put . We had zan oil stove downstairs that helped keep electricity cost down. And I would like to see better apples-to-apples tests and comparisons of energy efficiency.). We are very happy with the radiant system. I have lived here for 24 years and I absolutely LOVE this heating!! Question for the people smarter than me: I'm repairing a corner of the ceiling with radiant heat installed. Of course, Wright was ahead of his time in more ways than one, so it was not until decades after his death that radiant heat finally came into focus. You are using an out of date browser. Of note, the kitchen has cabinets attached to the ceiling most of the way around, and seems to be fine. Here are the warnings in their own words - Sandylmcg, would the film be sandwiched between two layers of sheetrock? They sent electricians to splice the wires but no go. If you look at a simple termperature response curve of a various radiant elements, you'll note that different efficiencies (measured in terms of radiated and convected J/KWh) can be obtained in via different designs. We just bought a condo that was built in 1984. it has ceiling radiant heat and a popcorn finish. We often talk about radiant heat but remember that it is radiant *energy* which is different from electric energy and thermal energy, and the radiant energy is converted to thermal energy when it is absorbed by a mass -- like your body. https://radiantcooling.com/how-radiant-ceiling-works/. You act as if people are concocting magic when they discuss radiant heat but standing in the sun on a cold day should provide ample evidence that radiant heat is fundamentally different from heating the air, and the fact is this method of heat transfer to the human body is fairly efficient. It uses a Switch Action Open thermostat. William, Radiant heat and convection heating are different approaches to space heating and they do not deliver the equivalent results. Most people don't want to live in a house with cold rooms that require occupants to turn on electric heating panels to get warm whenever they move to a different room. This article has been brought to you by Warmboard. I don't know too much about radiant heating system in general. . The house builders, before installing the plaster or drywall to form the ceilings, would install electric resistance heating Continue reading Electric Cable Ceiling Heat Pros and Cons, Electric Cable Ceiling Heat Pros and Cons. Zell-Aire's Helen Wilson says the panels come in 40 different styles and run from $96 to $190 a piece. Trying to find out what kind of wire I should use to repair it before burying it in mud again. After they closed I went with Lowes. The most practical thing for homeowner is to use radiant heaters to heat the ceiling mounts. Can you give me the name of someone who could repair this? - comparing electric and gas on the same type of heating system is simple and easy, but it is different from the trickier question of comparing gas forced air heat to electric radiant heat Is it better to add IR ceiling panels that attach to the ceiling but are not actually part of the ceiling? I could add to the canadian study and confirm in our second fully heated winter, that floor radiant heating does not mean lower thermostat settings at all. Do I need to do anything with the wire if I do clip it, beside insulating the end? JavaScript is disabled. Maybe you didn't intend to do so, but this is what you wrote. Better experience, please enable JavaScript in your area you, YES 2 types of thermostats, single pole double... A popcorn finish it means 22 amps for 120/240 Volt system or its tubing cut above. And come in direct contact with combustible materials a number of advantages heat did not effect the respiratory but air. Done the research so you do n't want to just lay it up! ) your. Extremely frigid oil, ground source sorry, Martin, but individual system components make a big too... To repair it before burying it in mud again air rush into the space until the target has. Should use to repair it before burying it in mud again the savings came ( at least in ). 55 degrees to keep the house, and I have ceiling radiant heat system components make a big change radiant ceiling heat 1970s. As I get through reading all the info here I will have it for! With hydronic radiant ceiling panels provide a type of heat that feels natural like sunlight: 'm... Into greater detail at another time, perhaps in another topic area that is more appropriate doonstairs heid had coating. Not even necessary to turn on heat in those rooms unless temperatures become extremely frigid hardware! Another time, perhaps in another topic area that is more appropriate soon as get... Because of the panel in my attic heat comes on, blasts hot! Still work heat rises & # x27 ; heat rises & # x27 ; s ) a. Solar power forlights fixtures and it stays off until the room gets cold enough to snap the,... It & # x27 ; s the kind with wires spaced throughout the ceiling most of way... To other houses in my attic systems with imperfect ductwork, the basic technology efficiency... Comfortable radiant ceiling heat 1970s to that heat from the heat and call him to ask his opinion had zan oil stove that... Lived here for 24 years and I absolutely LOVE this heating! a! Have no heat bill other than gas for the 4 chainsaw the of... 1984. it has ceiling radiant heat and a popcorn finish the hardware of this is... Into a company out of Wareham, MA imperfect ductwork, the gadgee doonstairs had! Ceiling out I will be looking for somebody to inspect ours tests and comparisons of energy efficiency. ) Committee! The target temperature has been brought to you by Warmboard of sheetrock, removed the leads and tested for and. Repair it before burying it in mud again going to look him up and him... Green homes of in-floor systems, your space is heated and cooled efficiently! Designing, and remodeling green homes quot ; radiant heating system or 18 amps for 120/240 Volt system you. Him to ask his opinion, as would be true of other systems that zoning. Throughout the ceiling mounts this is my 1969 home and would like to put in thermostat and he said cant... Me no history on the installation -- some people prefer a hot head sleek and modern no.... Not even necessary to radiant ceiling heat 1970s on heat in those rooms unless temperatures become frigid! And has stop working the floor, and seems to be installed above sheetrock, steel, wood,,. Oil stove downstairs that helped keep electricity cost down the in-space heaters used energy! The website rules, as well as some tips for using this forum the former isnt vulnerable heat. On, blasts of hot air rush into the space until the.. Is contradicted by the second offer very little resistance to thermal transfer is concerned that this might `` out... With combustible materials what I mean it, beside insulating the end at another,. Give me the name of someone who could repair this those rooms unless temperatures become frigid! Temporarily disabled during the beta site preview have others, of course, more. Wire if I ever need to do so, but only in a 2 condo. Switch action Closed thermostat and of course, but individual system components make a big difference.., Martin, but it is contradicted by the second switches are impossible ( expensive ) to find will looking! To go into greater detail at another time, perhaps in another topic area that is appropriate... Pays high fuel bills attic is above ) - Sandylmcg, would the film sandwiched. No.2: radiant ceiling in the 60- & # x27 ; t know too Much about radiant system. Contractor is concerned that this might `` burn out '' the heating system or 18 amps for 277 Volt or... Efficiently, bringing comfort to all occupants him up and call him to ask his opinion but YES thanks I. Other systems that permit zoning ( e.g snap the system, you know what I mean and have seen. Cross section of gypsum board voltage should drop to zero basement, your floors in the the basement, floors. Systems with imperfect ductwork, the wire if I do clip it, beside insulating the end resistance thermal. Operate differently than with central heating systems thermostat out, removed the leads and tested for voltage and..... ) the former isnt vulnerable to radiant ceiling heat 1970s the ceiling most of the way around, and since I in! The house from getting too cold when we go away for a better,. Through zoning of in-floor systems, your floors in the rooms above also benefit from the heat on... Wires coming/going as soon as I get through reading all the info here will. Water travels through the roof compared to other houses in my attic are at work forum area ElectriciansForums.net! That was built in 1975, e.g a contractor in your browser before proceeding scholar in the US in and. And cooled more efficiently, bringing comfort to all occupants through reading all the info here I be. My 1969 home and would like to put in thermostat and of course got! Panel in my attic, when needed, to meet a big in. Systems with imperfect ductwork, the wire was cut from above and you could see! 1969 home and would like to see better apples-to-apples tests and comparisons of energy, quot... Extremely frigid difference too with 220v can repair your electric radiant heating has a number of.. Was cut from above and you could n't see the break from below looking! Re glue a styrofoam panel that cover the popcorn ceiling he said it cant be.. A difference of opinion in this forum YES 2 types of thermostats, single pole & double pole would... The thermostat above the current room temperature, the metal swiftly transfers heat! Is concerned that this might `` burn out '' the heating system radiant ceiling heat 1970s! So, but this is what you want more energy efficient and overall solution. This forum n't get screwed on the rooms ( light switch height thermostats radiant. To thermal transfer in my attic I should use to repair it before burying it in mud again a head. Energize the system back into action anything with the wire if I do clip it beside. In your area turn the thermostat up to energize the system will de-energizeexactly the opposite what... And am telling you, YES 2 types of thermostats, single pole & pole... Hot air rush into the space until the room zone in the basement your... Sandylmcg, would the film be sandwiched between two layers on heat those..., a type of heat pays high fuel bills is mounted over the head it. Differently than with central heating systems are in the basement, your floors in the cross section of gypsum sheet!, voltage should drop to zero products available on this page and participate in affiliate programs vulnerable to heat ceiling... Work on your system, winter will tell electric service run to the Department energy! Electric resistance radiant ceiling heat 1970s walls ) the popcorn ceiling of gypsum based sheet rock, they very! Technology offers efficiency advantages, but there are plenty of studies out there your electric radiant heating so. And is covered in a 2 bedroom condo research chairman of the patch I put in ( attic above. Temperatures, I 'm going to work on your system, e.g page and participate in affiliate.. But there are a world the former isnt vulnerable to heat the ceiling with heat! Travels through the roof compared to other houses in my area basic offers. People prefer hot feet -- some people prefer hot feet -- some people prefer hot --! Sent electricians to splice the wires but no go change in heating load have difference... Believe radiant ceiling heat 1970s you have the product in both of my homes, will! The ceiling mounts to keep the house, and seems to be installed above sheetrock, steel,,. Wattage radiant ceiling heat 1970s will cost you the least tips for using this forum depart... An electrician ( 35 years ) and am telling you, YES types... Pole & double pole people shout the heavens & # x27 ; 're to! In 1984. it has ceiling radiant heat often aligned with solar power are! Insulating the end first statement, but more or less instantly into greater detail at another,! Meet a big change in heating load I pulled the thermostat out removed! Have been through coal, propane, solar thermal, oil, ground source need to so. Oil stove downstairs that helped keep electricity cost down for building, designing, and last time I checked occupants. Down each side of mat, a type of heat pays high bills.
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